EP #93 - Zion Perry - Fighter

I had a great yarn with Zion Perry, an up and coming exciting young fighter from Wellington. Zion has had many achievements so far and one of them was becoming the lightweight King In The Ring Champion late last year. 

We talked about his fighting style and being a technical fighter and his fight IQ. We get into the details of training Muay Thai, flow sparring and how swimming helps with his conditioning. Zion also does conservation work with protecting New Zealand's indigenous bush.

Great podcast, I even got AI to create me a "would-you-rather" questionnaire, which gets pretty funny pretty fast.

Zion's Social Media

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/zion_perry/

Sponsored by Infinity Sleep

Get the sleep you deserve and use the promo code “onlyscott15%” and receive 15% off your first order.

https://www.infinitysleep.co.nz/

My Social Media

YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@OnlyScott

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/theonlyscott01/

TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@onlyscottspodcast

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/Only-Scott-100091616387021/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

And I am here with Zion Perry, the fighter, the MMA fighter, kickboxer, king of the ring, damn dude, thanks for making it. The wannabe MMA fighter. The wannabe MMA fighter. The fight that was meant to happen yesterday, but didn't, but that's alright, bro. Things happen.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

It would have been cool to say, yep. I'm 100 an MMA now.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

But that's alright, man. I mean, like things happen, you know, in these in these circumstances. Did it did the fella miss weight? Did he get injured? Tama, right? Yeah. From um CKB, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

So opponents well, the opponent I was meant to fight was uh his name's Tama. Uh apparently he so he broke his hand, I heard. Ooh. Yeah, so you kinda need your hands when you're fighting.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

So um yeah, it's a shame. And that I guess um the timing was also not great because we couldn't find a replacement in time as well.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

So yeah. That's a bit of a shame, but hell man, like excited to talk to you about all the things you've done already. I mean, still pretty young, you've achieved like, yeah, fought on uh capital punishment, Arsenal X, TMT, and lights out. And uh we were just talking before how you've uh fought Alejandro twice. Um, and then then as I won King of the Ring in the final against Alejandro, who's also been on here. So congrats, man. That was uh because I've been we've been messaging, I'm look back at the messages, I think I first messaged you back in yeah, November or something. Yeah, it would have been shortly after King of the Ring ASM, yeah. Um which was late November, so yeah, yeah. So we've been messaging for a little bit, and um, but it's great to finally to catch up. Um I know you've done a podcast before, so I'm not gonna try and like you know stick to all those questions, but one thing I would like to talk to you about, and I I've watched a few of your fights and I kind of and how you talk about how you fight. And what I found interesting is you are quite a calculated fighter from what I can tell. You focus quite a lot on like trying to get your reads on your opponent. You don't really like you're not really someone who just rushes in and goes for it, from what I can tell so far.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Yeah, yeah, you'd be you'd be right to say that. Um I do like to think I I am using my brain a bit in there, which is which would hopefully be a good thing. Um and yes, you're right, I I do like to get reads, but I also I've because I've had fights where I'm getting those reads a bit too late, so I also kind of like to sometimes be up in their you know up in their space and make them uncomfortable as I'm getting their reads, if that makes sense. There's like I mean, there's lots of ways to start a fight, but I do like to um kind of keep the pace on quite early as well, just to you know, so I so I'm not just kind of losing on the scorecards by you know standing back and watching. Kind of actually got to be up in there as well at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

For sure. So what one thing I learned uh recently actually had Sam McGowan he was telling me about this in in in my tie rules, um like it's if if you're showing that you're like uh not getting hit uh and that you're hurting the other opponent and like you know, you get punched and you're not phase, you know. You've probably seen the fight from like the one championship guys, they get punched in terror danger, it's like I'm not hurt, you know. Yeah, it's quite interesting, like the that sort of uh because that's quite different from K1 kickboxing rules that we've got here.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

You kind of don't want to get hit at all.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Yeah, yeah. So it's uh yeah, it's uh I find that uh yeah, I find that quite interesting. But yeah, with your fight IQ, like yeah, I guess with like the reads, I heard someone else talk about this. Um actually, um Shaq Sterling has also been on here as well. He had a recent fight. I can't remember the promotion's name, but he was saying the same thing. If it took him a little while to get the reads and that, but then by the time he was getting the reads, it was getting a little too late in the fight, and it kind of I think it unfortunately cost him by decision. Yeah, that can happen. Which is uh yeah, you wait too long. So yeah, it's a fine balance, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:27

It is it's all it's all balance, like everything in fighting, it's it's um you can't do too much too much of that, you can't do too little of that, it's just it's constant balance. It's uh it's a real art, obviously, as we call it martial arts. Yeah, exactly. There we go. Yeah, I was thinking like it is quite bizarre, like when you looking from the outside, when you hear people calling it an art, like martial arts, like is it an art? It's just people like hitting each other. But like when you really break it down and and see all the different kind of components that goes into it, it really is an art form. Like that you're kind of it's like a it's like dance, I reckon, is the it's probably the closest thing to it is is because you have choreography in a dance, so we're just like we you know you kind of know each up what your dance partner and your personality is. Yeah, but it's kind of like that, but there is no script, you're kind of making up as you go, and you know someone will end up on top because they they're doing the right things to get themselves in that place, and yeah, it's it's it's pretty interesting as the more you do it.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Yeah. Um I was uh gonna ask you as well about your first part of martial getting into martial arts. Is the first thing you tried, was it kickboxing? Was that the first martial art you tried? Did you ever try karate like Taekwondo or anything like that?

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Ages ago, I was kind of doing a bit of jujitsu pretty casually and and a bit of grappling stuff. Um I was pretty often on with it and I didn't really see it as something like you know super important in my life to pursue. But I would say what really like my very first martial art I really like kind of fell in love with and and really put everything into was Muay Thai.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Muay Thai.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

Yeah. Which is, you know, it's pretty similar to kickboxing, but there is definitely some big differences that um will create a whole different dynamic. Um obviously with the clinch, which is like my favourite part of Muay Thai. Nice, um, which is kind of grappling in itself, um standing grappling, that that changes the whole dynamic in a way as well. Um with the elbows and the knees.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Well, yeah, also having like good jujitsu you'll be good at the clinch as well. Yeah. I think that helps.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Yeah, I find that they are quite similar, like clinching and and grappling is they they're kind of the same thing, just you know, in different ways, but they also have like can be very different as well. So, you know, it's one of those things to balance.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Yeah. Um so since you've been like you've been training for a little while, I want to ask you about um what's your experience of um uh oh well, I want to ask you actually this. Uh what is good sparring etiquette?

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Um it's funny because I good for me, because I'm just doing it all the time, it's more of like a feeling thing, right? You it's hard to explain, but especially when I'm meeting someone for the first time, I'm very uh you will be you have to be a bit more reserved in the shots you're you're throwing in terms of like you want to kind of almost meet you know, both kind of you know, you're not just going in there and like um scrapping right away. You've got to be a little bit more like playful, and then you kind of allow things to happen progressively, and then you eventually get to a point where you actually are properly sparring, so you will like start a bit more reserved. Uh, I like to smile a lot. I think that that makes a big difference, it's just smiling and just being like, you know, having fun. Having fun, yeah, yeah. And and not being too um aggressive, obviously. I mean we do this thing in my gym in Warrior. We um we have one session a week called flow sparring, which is which has been really, I think, been like an awesome tool because it makes a big emphasis on sparring light. Um and we we do go hard to the body because like I think that we think that's okay is to go hard to the body and to the legs, but um we just make sure make a big emphasis not to go hard to the head because that's the only thing that kind of doesn't recover, or you know, you can't uh regrow brain cells as far as I'm aware. So yeah. Um so that's taught me good sparring etiquette in general because we do that every week as um yeah, like a really really nice light sparring.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Yeah, the flow spar. And also I guess setting up counters as well. Like, does that help with that?

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Like as well, like it helps with heaps of things because it slows things down as well, and when you slow things down, you um you can break break break apart techniques a lot easier and see things like that you might not see if everything's at full speed, full power. So, yeah, I think it helps heaps.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Nice. Yeah, because I've I've I'm curious about it because every gym's got a little bit different etiquette when it comes to sparring, and obviously like different martial arts as well, like sparring with boxes, completely different. Um talking to Daniel Ruang on here and he sparred with boxes and didn't like it? Ah, it just goes people just because everyone just goes uh you know, full tilt.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Yeah, and then Muay Thai is kind of on the other side of the spectrum. It's yeah, it's usually quite light. Yeah, you're kind of like I point like point like oh I got you there, like you know, like oh you got me here. Oh, like you know, you make those noises like the ooh, yeah, wee you know, like um it is different. Um, and I I because I'm used to it, I guess, uh I do prefer the Muay Thai kind of perspective on sparring, but I mean hard sparring has its place as well, especially as a competitor, like you have to kind of simulate more closely to what an actual fight's gonna be, like it's different power, different speed, like we call it fight fight speed or fight power. It's it's um it's it's a lot, yeah, it is quite different, so you've you kind of have to do a bit of both.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Yeah. So I'm assuming these days you're doing a bit of everything Muay Thai sparring, MMA sparring, kickboxing sparring, jujitsu. Rolling, rolling, we call it all the rolling rolling. All the rolling, yeah, all the rolling. Yeah, yeah. Um, what do you have if do you have a favorite?

SPEAKER_01 8:47

I I've gotta say Muay Thai sparring is kind of like elite, like fun. Um and then I'll say my second is rolling, because that's also really fun, and especially I find it it's really um gets the brain juices flowing, like it you have to be quite creative and yeah, a lot of problem solving. It's it's a whole nother ball game like compared to the striking. Um I mean they're both just as like they can be as deep as you want to make it. Um but if it seems as though jujitsu goes even f to a further level of problem solving compared to to striking like it's funny because to a lot of people striking might not look you know very complicated. Complicated but you need to use your brain too much. Yeah, but there actually is a whole lot going behind the little micro movements, there's a big there's a lot to unpack.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

All the reaction times as well, yeah. Like some have some like about to load up a certain punch and then like the feints and the fakes and stuff, like there's a lot uh to calculate from that. Yeah, and some people are very good at it, and some people yeah, some people but then some people have like a you know you eat a punch, so then you can uh you know give a punch or something, which is too.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

It might not look as pretty, but sometimes like the non-pretty things are just like even more effective than the prettier stuff.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

But you have to judge it for a ponent to a ponent, right? Sometimes it'll work, sometimes it might not be.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

That's how we love it, eh? It's all it's all pretty complex and deep the more you look into it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

But it also it can be as simple as you want it too. You know, one punch. That's also true.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Yeah, Mark Hunt that shit. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

But I'm sure he's doing things that are like to allow that to happen as well.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Makes it look easy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's also true. Um, so are you so your goal is UFC, right? I'd say so. That's that that's the goal?

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Um the I like to the thing is aim big. Oh yeah, yeah. Um I also kind of like to live more in the present in terms of allowing whatever happens, happens in a way. Like I'm uh I find that is a better space to operate in. So if that is the path that I that I do would go down, then that would be great. Like that's kind of my naive younger version of me. That's that's exactly what I wanted to do. And I it's still there, that driver's really there. But it's um I'm kind of allowing to let paths open up to like whatever happens in life, kind of. But um, that would be um kind of my yeah, the dream for me would be competing and and being successful and and and the UFC would be pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

Would you what would you fight in? Is it featherweight? Uh so my because the weight divisions work a bit differently.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Yeah, so the cancelled fight last night that I was meant to fight in is bantam weight. Um at like that uh UFC weight is bantamweight, which is 61.5 kilograms that area.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

Very light, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Yeah, I'm I'm a light guy. But um, I mean, there's there's a potential that I could even go lower, possibly, um, you know, depending on how if I get my nutrition right and everything like that. Um like I think fighters, especially these days, you know, trying to get as low as they can to like have the biggest advantage they can have. So yeah, I'm open to all that. But um I think banning weight right now for me is is one of those weights where I know I could, you know, make the weight pretty easy and just kind of be really active there. So yeah, it's probably the weight nice at the moment.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Because I guess you have to yeah, I've talked to a few fighters on here about weight because I've got to quite careful, you know. Like if you've got to do it right, you gotta do the weight cut right.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Yeah, the weight cut can actually be a lot more um damaging than the fight itself.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

So, you know, it's yeah, there was that fight a while ago with um I can't remember the fighter's name, but it was I remember like the clip of like Michael Bisping talking about weight cutting or whatever, and the guy just like passes away in the background.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Yeah, yeah, I do remember that clip.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Yeah, I can't remember the fighter's name, but I was like, oh god, that's awful. But it probably didn't weight cut right or yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Well, I mean, sometimes you're and your body will react differently sometimes, so like it's probably uh I mean I know Joe Rogan goes on about it a lot that um you know he hates weight cutting and he thinks it's it shouldn't be a part of the sport, which um I think a lot of people agree with. It's especially since it's um you know not good for your body long term and even short term. Um so if there is ways to kind of mitigate weight cutting in the future that'll be great, but at the same time, like if if if everyone's doing it, you kind of everyone's gotta do it in a way. It's either like stopping everyone from doing it or allowing it.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

Is it truly fair? I guess that's the thing. I guess I guess it is, but then uh but then everyone puts on the water weight back on anyway, so then is it fair?

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Well the issue is it would have because it currently right now in most promotions, including the UFC, there's fairly l fairly large gaps between each weight, so that kind of makes you either have to jump from one weight to the other. There's kind of some of them there'll be a fighter who's actually much better to be in between those two weights, but because that division doesn't exist, they have to you know go to one or the other. So you would have to create um more divisions, which would have its own problems, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Yeah, that's also a lot more to manage, isn't it? Yeah, that's true. Um all right. Uh yeah, something else I found interesting that uh I learned about you was that as well as being a fighter and you also work in conservation. Is that right? So yeah, I wanted to ask you uh how long have you been working in the field, by the way?

SPEAKER_01 13:54

So I'm actually in the office mainly. But uh I do get out to the field every now and then to kind of see how things are going and um have like um a trip out with our like a local rep or something. Um but I've been working in conservation for three years now. Um so like I pretty much right outside of right out of uni, I got um landed this cool job um where I'm mainly doing a lot of the like administration work and office work, um, supporting our reps out in the field, um, our e field ecologists who are doing like the um the stuff on the ground. And yeah, where there's a bunch of us in the office kind of doing all the paperwork side of things and getting things going. Um yeah, it's about three years and yeah, it's it's pretty cool. I i it's great knowing that you're kind of making a bit bit of an impact, um, a positive impact on the you know, on the environment, which New Zealand's environment is so unique and special, especially to I think so many Kiwis can kind of relate to that. Um just knowing that like in our backyard there's there's these places we can go to that and feel really connected to and grounded to, and it's I think it's pretty important to protect those places. So yeah, that's what it's all about, really.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

No, that's awesome. That's awesome. Um I wanted to ask you, it's got kind of a big uh a big question, but uh do you think New Zealand is doing enough for sustainability?

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Sustainability. So um when you look at that. You can make this as broad or as detailed as you want. I won't make it too specific or anything. Um just sustainability itself is like uh all about kind of doing the things that are going to like limit um non-sustainable energy sources. For example, like I I like to look at it more of an energy point of view. Yep. Where you're kind of recycling energy. So that's um stuff like hydropower, um turb like wind wind power, things like that. The more we can do that, uh the geothermal stuff we're doing as well, um, the more we can kind of um build more into that so that like 100% of our energy would be from like renewable sources, for example. That would be awesome in terms of like sus sustainability. Um then the other question I think is we've got like a lot of um like kind of landfill and rubbish problems, just like all nations have that issue. Uh if there's you know, I think it as more technology kind of comes we can, you know, um do better things. I think which we're I think we're doing okay, but I I'm not a I'm not an expert in sustainability and sustainability um practices in New Zealand by any means. Um but obviously the more we can invest in that stuff would be would be great. Like and kind of I guess electrifying our industries and things like that to take away from um using relying on fossil fossil fuels and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Sure, sure. I think the only counter I have there is like I just don't I think I talk about this podcast before with someone else. I don't think we are quite there to be fully reliant on just yet. We're nowhere near that. And there's a balance of the demand, obviously, for the power, which is huge, of course. Um and I don't but then the other issue is is that I think you have to find a way to not just balance the demand, balance the renewable, but then I think it's also like um uh having all the sources available to you and using fossil as like a backup, but not as a main, which I think we should still keep it. Yeah, I don't think we should uh because that's one thing uh I guess globally, which is interesting. Uh everyone wants to get rid of it, but I don't think it's a good idea to get fully rid of it. I think it needs to be there in some way because whether people like it or not, coal, even coal and fossil fuels is like it's like the most reliable way to create energy.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

It's right, and all of our technology kind of especially for like you know post-industrial revolution, like everything was designed to be, you know, run on steam and and coal and that kind of power source. So we have to make the the right ways of going about it's been obviously like if we can invest more and more you know money and time and resources into like you know creating more renewable energy stuff, then that's I guess that's the way forward. But that's always gonna be a super complicated journey.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

And I mean, yeah, I'm not I'm not an expert on the on the um No, I'm just curious because you work in the conservation field because I'm assuming you had an opinion on it, so I'm just curious because um we're in a funny point in time with like where we're progressing with this stuff and like what works, what doesn't, and uh I guess you will be having these conversations in your workplace and conservation workspace.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

So our our um line of work is a lot more about protection of species and biodiversity. Ah, okay. Yeah. So um so yeah, because the environmental the environmental issue, I if you call it, um, it could be so it's such a wide spectrum of the colour.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

It is, yeah, but it's oppressive species, but then it's pollution, but it's also to do with energy, you have to think about it. Yeah, exactly. It's all related to it.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

So um but our specific, I guess, goal is is uh about protecting um it's called open space values, so like um indigenous forests would be the it would be our the largest um kind of areas that we're trying to protect. Yeah. So we we work with um private landowners and um help each other protect uh these spaces um in a legal matter as well, like so we we kind of protect these um blocks of land um from being developed. Yeah. And things like that.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

And yeah, that that that's so important. I think as I won't get too political, but I think as time has has been telling us, I think that stuff is even more important than ever.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

It's a f that we only have a finite like a finite space that these you know these you know um important ecosystems are in, and if we you know destroy them all, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

There's nothing left.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

No, and there's and it's not gonna be good for our human health either. So it's all no, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

And I think what's also interesting about it for me is you take away these uh native forests or uh whether it be yeah, like uh nationally wetlands areas, uh you actually also damage uh tourism.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Which is our like one of our biggest uh economics.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

It's kind of like interesting when people think about it from like trying to people just want to get a quick buck, I guess. But you know, but but it's good that we have those things in place. Um but no, that's great what you're doing. That's cool.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Yeah, it's a it's a cool mechanism that like a lot of farmers and things will kind of yeah, come to us and get those little blocks of bush and those special places um protected.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Yeah. Well, if anyone ever takes it, you can just fight them with your motif or that's funny enough.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Yeah. Some people in the uh office talk about that. Like we can make like an enforcer roll or something, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

I'm just a little mad, so I don't I don't know how imposing I'd be, but you could be enforcing you've got to fight with uh with uh with Zion and MMA match. Gotta get in the cage with them. If you want this land. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

If you want to get in that bulldozer and you know, smash that place down.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

You have to fight for it, literally.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

It's been good though, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Awesome, dude. Alright, okay. We're gonna so I've got some um some fun questions for you, and then I also have some AI questions. Oh, because I thought we'd just spice it up because uh, you know, have a bit of fun today. So um what I wanna ask you, okay, so what are the hidden rules of a combat sports gym that no one talks about but people follow?

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Oh yeah, that's uh it's interesting you bring that up because And this episode is sponsored by me.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Do you struggle with sleeping and particularly struggle with light and sound while sleeping? I think it's time you get the sleep that you deserve. My business, Infinity Sleep, specializes in sleep well-being products to enhance your sleep quality. I've been using sleep masks and airplugs for the past three years to help improve my sleep, and I'm so stoked to finally have ones that have been created for my own sleeping needs. If you would like to learn more about my business, Infinity Sleep, please visit our website w dot infinitysleep.co dot nz. By making a purchase, you are directly not only supporting a local Yiwi business, but also this podcast. Use the promo code only scott fifteen percent and receive fifteen percent. Off your first order. Go to www.infinity sleep.co dot nz to get the sleep that you deserve.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

I I've been in a combat gym now or like over the years for about maybe like five or six years at this point, like in different gyms and things. Um especially at the the one I'm at right now is has been the bulk of it the last five years or so. Um and you you do get like new people every now and then um I guess that don't pick up on these kind of things that you have to kind of realize, oh well, you know, like they don't they don't really know any better as well. So it's also it's almost like you kinda you know, you have to have that empathy to to realise that, you know. After it's only after a few years that you kind of pick up these like things. But I'd say like a hidden hidden rule that everyone kind of tries to follow, I guess, is it's mostly really just being a decent person is probably the best way to put it. It's like hard to explain, but one would be one's definitely about controlling your emotions and your temper. That is probably the would be the biggest um thing that would get you in trouble, if which is probably in all work culture really, but especially in in a like a combat scenario where there's like you know, kind of your body's on the line a bit, um, it's even more important. Uh it's so it's always like kind of a a bigger deal when someone is like letting the emotions get to them and they just you know they just kind of lose it. That's something that would be like that kind of behavior try to try to keep in line.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

Yeah, no, that that makes sense, yeah. I mean like with like sparring and stuff, or even like rolling, like people can get very aggressive, or someone's had a bad day, someone's like their girlfriend. Can't you take people want to take out their day on people sometimes?

SPEAKER_01 23:49

That is yeah, that that's a thing that you see. And I do understand that because the gym is a kind of almost like a place to unwind and like allow that you you want to release that energy, I guess. But it's about doing it in like a safe way. Safe way, like maybe you hit the bag harder, not the not a human, you know. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

True, true. Okay, it's it is a good one. Have you ever tapped in uh BJJ from someone's bad BO?

SPEAKER_01 24:13

Ah Um I have not. I have not. I I I guess I'm someone that just kind of like endures. Rather, I yeah, and it's just part of it. Yeah, you get used to it. Um breath is another one. Yep. Some people fart when you're rolling, and that that and that sometimes you do want to tap and just walk away from that area, but you kind of just go through it.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Yeah, yeah. You've got to gotta win that role, no matter the cost.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Yeah. Yeah, I've never I've never like thought it's I guess it's bad enough to like to s to stop the flow and and then and you know disrupt the rhythm, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Have you ever told someone that they smell?

SPEAKER_01 24:53

No. No, no, yeah. Maybe maybe I'm too nice sometimes. But it it's also nicer to to tell people those kind of things. But I've I've I've never had that much of an issue, I think. I'm um so I've gone back and forth a bit to this gym in um in the Gold Coast. Um and a few of the older guys I remember like for s and I think because it's the Gold Coast, people sweat a lot more as well. It's a lot more humour, a little more heat. And it's a ju it's a jujitsu heavy MMA gym, so it's all about grappling as in that gym. Um and a lot, I remember, yeah, some of those older guys um for some reason, yeah, just they would have like a very distinct smell. And I and it's not like maybe some people would think it's bad, but maybe I've got a bit more of a tolerance to like to odors just because I'm around it all the time. But there's been times where like, oh it's it's pungent. Yeah, but it never like stops the like the action. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Um so no, you haven't tapped.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

But funnily enough, every time I come, like a lot of the times I come home, I have like my rashie on and I'm like, you know, it's full of sweat and stuff from like rolling and things. And like I'll say smell like other people. Yeah, and I'll I'll say it to my girlfriend, like, she'll be like, Oh, you stink. I was like, it's not me, it's other people's sweat. I'll say it like every time. Kind of it's become a bit of a thing. But I'll just say like I'll just try and blame it on other people's sweats.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

I don't smell bad, but it's everyone else's.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

It's everyone else's like, oh it's even worse, it's like ten people's or even more like you know, sweat on your own.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Ten people sweat on me or more. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

It's like a concoction of uh This is probably really gross with some listeners, yeah. But of concoction of bacterias and but that's just the that's just the make sure we stay clean, make sure we shower quickly after the gym, especially no staff, no staff.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

No staff, keep that away.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Yeah, I've gone that a few times, so especially since rolling a lot more. But it's not fun.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

I think uh someone told me that it's uh I think you've got 17 minutes after I don't know, this might be not true. I just heard it from someone 17 minutes after you've finished, you have until you can get rid of staff if you've like managed to but it doesn't make sense because if you're gonna get rolling for like an hour and a half and you get it like halfway through, then it's too late. So Yeah, how does that work? So I don't I don't really know. Maybe they're talking shit. It sounds like one of those. In theory it sounded alright, but now that I think about it in more detail, I'm like, nah, I don't think that works. Because what if you get it like when you start? Someone's got stuff. Yeah, at the very start of the roll, yeah. And you just get it right then and then you give it to everyone else. Clean the mats, guys.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Um get clean. Yeah. So like I'm I'm definitely using like scrubbing soap on my body now a lot more.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Antibacterial soap and stuff. Yeah, yeah. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

You kind of have to, eh?

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Have to, bro. Yeah. Um have you ever vomited from training?

SPEAKER_01 27:30

I I have felt the like the urge to, but I've never actually got like like actually vomited. No. Which is weird. I I yeah, it's been many years now of like really grueling, intense training, and yeah, I don't think I've ever actually like vomited. I've gone close to it, but never. Yeah, never have. Yeah. I feel like it's I see it's probably more um when people aren't used to it and they're really pushing. So like m more of the newbies coming in that I will see it happen every now and then, like, because they're not their body isn't used to that vigorous of a training session, and I then I'll see it sometimes. And it I think it's it's probably like some people a bit b bit more um prone to it than others. But I have myself I've never vomited from training or f or a fight. I know that um getting hit to the head and that can cause um vomiting as like a sign of concussion. So hopefully I don't have to do it via that router either.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Have you ever like also on that note, have you ever passed out from exhaustion?

unknown 28:28

No.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Have you seen people No, I've I've seen people pass out from not tapping, like getting choked out. I've said that.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

But I've never seen other people pass out from exhaustion or near nor myself do it.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

That's good. Um have I? Not in uh no, I mean I do a little bit of martial arts, but not I don't think in martial arts. I remember I used to be years ago, a long time ago, I was a lifeguard and we used to do like a pre um pre-training camp. So we would run up sand dunes and do all this kind of crazy stuff. I saw people vomit and pass out. It was like in the boiling hot sun outside and you're running up and down.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Was there a lot of swimming involved with that as well?

SPEAKER_00 29:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Yeah, swimming, that's so that's ocean swimming too. So yeah, it's a whole nother thing, eh? Yeah. I do um pool swimming, like lap swimming. Um that's good. Yeah, once a week, I tr I try to do that. Oh, that's really yeah, really good for you. I wish I did more of that.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

I always say I should do more of it than I don't.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

It's funny, like whenever I I I turn up I'm like, oh, I really can't be bothered most of the time I do it. But I'm just like, you know, if this is the if this is the little extra thing that, you know, like m it allows my cardio or whatever to be, you know, even fitter than the other guy, then it's worth it. It's that 1% better. Yeah. Um but I've always kind of I always view it as my little secret weapon sometimes in a way, but I I don't know if it is, but um I I f I yeah, I definitely put a big emphasis on swimming for um for combat conditioning, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

You find it what what what does it really help with?

SPEAKER_01 29:50

It's the breathing is a big part.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

So you're yeah, so you're because you're um actually using your brain to kind of um breathe rather than just uh So it does it hurts a lot more, helps a lot more of your circulation and your breathing, like you can hold your I mean like you're very tired in that, but I guess if you if you swim a lot, you're better, you have a better, maybe better tolerance.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

Yeah, so you're intentionally using um your breath, which like so breath work, which is super important outside of like as well, like compar uh outside of swimming for combat sports, but i I guess just swimming like kind of almost forces you to do it. So that's one thing. And then apparently I think it you know it can create your a bigger like diaphragm and lungs and things, and um it's also I find um it conditions my muscles more, like I'm because I actually can get quite sore shoulders and and you know that kind of stuff. Well not sore, but you know, you feel them like they're tightening up and you're actually kind of toning them up, it feels like for me. Um so I get that little extra extra conditioning, I feel like, from from um yeah, from swimming. Especially if you're going quite hard. Like yeah, it's a just another boost of um of I guess a cardio that your body's not exactly getting from like running or other sprints or anything like that. Yeah, it's a slightly different way to kind of get your body ready. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

I reckon. That's a good tip. That's a good tip. Um okay, um, I came up with. Okay, is there a fighter? You obviously you follow the UFC a lot. Um, is there a fighter in the UFC that you look at and you wonder how they got there?

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Wonder how they got there isn't, well, this guy's not very good. How did he get there? Is that the way or is it wonder like, oh, what was their backstory to get there?

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Like what uh I think it's more like um they're not very good or like they're very like unpredictable. Like my I guess like my answer to that, if I was maybe maybe you, I would be like Kevin Holland. Like it's just so up and down, like he just wins and loses like loses.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

From a performance standpoint, like just how he's like he'll win, then lose, and win, then lose coming up.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

It's very inconsistent. You know, there's guys who will uh it's I think their records they'll win for a long time, and then sadly they get a bit older, maybe lose a bit more. Um but there's some guys who just lose for ages but they're still there. Uh and it's quite interesting. So yeah, is there any fighting you can see?

SPEAKER_01 32:11

I remember there I guess a lot of people mocked, well, or just kind of like were quite confused about um Ben Askren's striking. Oh, so if you're looking at a particular like um component of MMA, you're like, oh damn, how did that guy get in the UFC with that kind of striking? But then obviously he's got the awesome wrestling to to kind of go with it. But yeah, some of I remember some of those sequences that you can you really do, like just like it you ponder like, wow, how did you know how to get so far in MMA with that kind of like striking? Yeah. But so I think things like that, but I I think overall I feel like UFC is one of those places you can't kind of get there by accident, you must be doing something correct to get there. So I don't I don't think I've ever too really looked at a UFC fight and be like, oh, there's no way that they could have got there like naturally like through being actually good, because I think you have to actually re be really good to get there. At least that's what it looks like from me looking in. Um who else? I mean, I know Khibeb had pretty a shocking striking as well in the beginning. In the in the very beginning, but then he obviously like progressed and like learnt heaps and you know became a really good striker as well. Yeah, so like it I think you can look at things like that. Then there's obviously the other side where you have extremely good strikers that might not have great grappling, and then but you know, um those things usually will tend to get exposed, I guess, at some point, like and then they might like work on it. But no, I don't think I've actually ever looked at a UFC file and be like, oh like their shit, like they shouldn't have got there. Nah, I think everyone that gets there, apart from CM Punk, I think that was one of the things that was.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

Oh yeah, yeah, he's from WWE.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

So yeah, that was more of like a entertainment aspect thing, I think.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

And didn't didn't work out. Yeah, so Brock Lisner was like that as well, but that did work out.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he was really good.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

He was originally from WWE and he moved over and he was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

So um just huge. I think apart pretty much apart from CM Punk, I think yeah, everyone kind of like deserves to at least show their potential.

SPEAKER_00 34:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

That's what I've seen.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

No, that's uh interesting. Okay, uh what was your first uh jujitsu session like?

SPEAKER_01 34:15

Oh, well it was ages ago, so don't remember that well, but I think because um I've always like as a kid, I've always loved like kind of getting like physical and wrestling and like with friends and and things like um I've always seen it as something quite fun and and entertaining to do, which which helps because you're actually like enjoying it. Um yeah, I think I enjoyed it. I I remember some interesting things about like I guess a lot of like dojos and um when it comes to jujitsu and things is there's actually quite a bit of tradition I didn't really like know much about. Like I remember so one of the uh the dojo in um in Motsuka where I'm from, um every time before training we'd line up in a row going from like the highest ranking belt to the lowest ranking belt. I don't know if you've ever seen something like that. So like there'll be the the the senseis at the at the front and then you've got the um you've got like if you have a black belt for example, like that would be at the front, the front left kind of and or front right, whatever it starts, and then it kind of goes from like least most skilled to least skilled, um, going to the back of the room. Um so that's a tradition, I guess, that I didn't really know about and I was quite yeah surprised at to see, just um an interesting thing. Apparently that's uh like an old feudal Japanese kind of setup. So that was something I was like, oh well it's interesting. But um obviously I think uh in the modern day today, like we don't see that heaps and but in jujutsu gyms and stuff. It's a there's less tradition. Um I I feel like there's especially like at the jujutsu gym I'm at right now is quite a different has a very different kind of mindset of um approaching jujitsu. It's um like the teachers don't feel like they're like it doesn't feel like there's this huge hierarchy where they're like kind of like you know, pointing down at us. It feels like it feels very much like a collaboration. So yeah. But so there'll be some places that are more traditional than others and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

But there's yeah, some following probably more Japanese rules and following Brazilian rules, or more of a modern takeo.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Yeah. And I but I if I'm not mistaken, the Brazilians kind of they they were taught from like from a Japan Japanese to begin with, but then obviously they've you know, they kind of took it and really and really I feel it made it a lot more effective as well in some ways. Brazilian jujitsu is like it is the jujitsu to do.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

Yeah. So that's true, it is, yeah. Um what do people underestimate about you?

SPEAKER_01 36:46

Um I try not to really even think too much about other people's opinions on me because I mean I I catch myself doing this a lot where I have like a certain perspective of someone, but then I'll that'll that will change because well y you only you only get know someone so much because you're not that person yourself, so you know I try not to think about too much because I know that um you'll never kind of fill my shoes in a way where I'll never feel fill your shoes because we're two completely different people of different backgrounds and things like that, but sorry that's a complicated way of putting it, but um um I do obviously I do like care to a degree what people think about me. Obviously, you know, ego's a thing. Um what are things they they might because I'm a little guy, they might think I'm weak, maybe. But uh and maybe I am. Like I'm not I'm not strong. I don't think so, bro. Well, I'm not strong. I I know I'm not strong. I think you're pretty strong. Oh physical, I mean, yeah, it's funny.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

Maybe I it you could I guess strength is like uh the eye of the beholder in some ways, isn't it? Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So and because a lot of the time, like if you go to jujitsu and stuff, you've probably had this experience, someone who weighs double double your weight, but then they don't have the skill set, then suddenly you're strong. Yeah, definitely because they don't they don't understand the mechanics, so then in that way you could say, okay, they can't just lie on top of you because well they can't, they don't know what they're doing.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

It's like the make the mechanics and the leverage and everything that's like.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

So I guess strength strength is uh is interesting because it depends. Because when it comes to martial arts, like just because you're a big guy doesn't mean you're gonna be good at it, as as we know, you know. Yeah, what's it the Bradley Martin 260 or whatever? That's so funny. I love that shit. Have you seen that guy? No, it wasn't he's like um there was like a podcast a while ago, it was like with Nate Diaz or something, and he was just like because Nate Diaz, you know, he's not the biggest guy, but then there's other guy, Bradley Martin, who was on like the stream or something, he's a big streamer or whatever, yeah, from the full send podcast or something. And just fucking around. I don't know if he was like it sounded pretty genuine, which was kind of funny. He was just like, but I'm too sixty, I'll smash you. It's just like you just go to the gym.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

Did they did they um have a fight?

SPEAKER_00 38:55

No, I don't think they did. I think he went and tried jujitsu and something was like oh yeah, I had no idea what he was talking about. Because in his head he was like, I'm big, I'm strong, I've got muscles, you know, like what do you mean someone who does you have seen trained their whole life can be me? Yeah, people are very strange.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

That is something you'll hear a lot, is like, oh well I'm bigger than you, so of course I'm gonna win. Um and that is that can be true to a degree, but uh I mean martial arts shows, you know, time and time again that it's actually more about you know, obviously, it's uh there's a lot more involved than just straight, you know, strength difference or power difference, size difference. But um yeah, I'm not too sure. I I like I said I don't try to think about too much about um that's that that's the healthy way of that's the healthy way of doing it.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

I'd keep it with that.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

Yeah, hopefully that's kind of working, so hopefully, yeah, just keep going like that.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

Alright, okay, here's one. This is I don't know if this is a fun one. Is there anyone who doesn't do combat sports who you'd like to fight?

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Hmm. So that kind of when I think about that, I think about like the YouTube YouTuber fights and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

Oh it could be that, or it could be like, I don't know, some celebrity figure or whatever, whoever you want. Someone who doesn't do the do, you know, combat sports.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

Um I haven't actually I've never thought of it that way. Um There's no one like from pop culture or anything that like I'd be like, oh, I'd love to fight that guy. Because I think I've I've only ever looked at it as like a sport where I'm fighting people that actually do the sport. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

Yeah, I mean that makes sense. I'm just thinking like if you look at it like, oh, you know, like me and Dwayne the Rock Johnson, let's go.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

What about like a historical figure? That would be cool.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

Maybe like someone like Abraham Lincoln or you know, like just to see what they what they got, you know, like probably probably doing this, you know, the lull box and put them up.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Um like I think that would be cool, maybe. Like even um I'd love to see like you know how Rome obviously had the gladiators. It would be cool to see uh an old gladiator versus a new gladiator if like you know, because it you it's pretty easy to see the um the parallels between like modern UFC and then things something something like the Roman Coliseum. Obviously, there's a lot one is a lot more desirable to be in than the other because you know's to the death. Yeah, it ones to the death, and that's not the same.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

And also, have you seen um like there's like the the like the medieval MMA fighting stuff? That looks so cool, but I'm gonna be able to do it. It looks cool, but also I wouldn't want to do it, but yeah. It looks like a it looks like a nerd's dream. It is it is definitely a nerd's dream.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

Yeah. Um yeah I think it would be awesome to see like some if there was some awesome superstar in the Coliseum um fight like one of our awesome superstars, you know, these days, uh that would be cool to see. Yeah, yeah, I think. But I I've never looked at like um yeah, so like a celebrity, for example, and be like, oh, I want to fight ya. They might be like an actor, for example, and you know, yeah. It's a different different industry. Not interested. Yeah, but um what I was gonna say about the whole like youtuber fight thing, I I there's a part there's a jealous part of me that's like these guys have like they haven't been through the you know, through the ringer. Through the ringer, they haven't been through the ringer.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

And now they're getting paid millions of dollars. It is a f an occasional boxing match.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

Yeah, I I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

Oh, it's just all about entertainment at the end of the day. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

I think that's that's what it goes to show is that it it's about what it's about what actually like um you know puts puts people in seats, you know. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

What's gonna put people in seats to watch you at the end of the day? Yeah, yeah, which is uh you know, it's it's kind of like that tension with martial arts, isn't it? Like, because there's the artistic part, there's like the respect, the discipline, the fighting, and then there's like this other part where it's like, well, yeah, you gotta we gotta sell the arena, so yeah. You gotta make it exciting.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

It's and there's always gonna be a balance between.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

So when everyone goes to the floor and UVC, everyone's like, boo, you know.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

Yeah, it's funny. Even last night on the um the Shuriken series uh fight card Omber, um I could kind of see from people's perspectives a little bit like I guess the the casual fans, yeah, how they could see something like um when when people kind of go to the ground, like wrestle, that it could become kind of boring. I mean obviously if you know what's happening, it it is a lot more interesting.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

Yeah, but um I think it depends. Like even like I know because I know a little bit of what's happening, but I find if people just sit there and don't do anything, I'm like, they're like they're holding a dominant position for E. G they're winning, yeah, or just riding out the clock, which if it's like ten seconds left, I get it. But if it's like another like minute, it's just like you've got to be progressing the fight.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

Yeah, I understand that.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

Yeah, but I also when you're in it, it's just like gotta get a breather. Yeah, gotta get a breather, and so I I can, but I think um, yeah, from like a punter's point of view, I I I I do understand some of it, but sometimes it's also like this is MMA guys, like this is the sport you're what you're watching.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

So I I see both sides because I can actually see that it um you know you kind of do go like, oh yeah, um it would be cool if I kind of got stood back up so I could like be on my edge of my seat to see if there's actually gonna you know gonna be something like really flashy. But um at the same time, like you're watching this sport for a reason, it's got all these different ways of winning, so that's why it's exciting because there is so much diversity in in an MMA fighter.

SPEAKER_00 44:02

There's so many ways to win.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

Exactly. Whereas you know in a kickboxing fight, um, it's a limited amount of ways to win.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

I also find people get like take the piss out of like decision fighters. Oh yeah. Whereas in my opinion, if you can win a decision uh you know very conflictly, very obviously, I think that's really freaking impressive. Yeah. I don't have I personally don't have anything against that, especially if they're exciting. Like I would argue like, you know, I mean Alexander Volkonowski, the great, he's amazing. But I wouldn't say he's like a knockout artist. No, he is. He's just incredibly smart. He's a great fighter and his IQ's amazing but his fights are entertaining.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:36

So I don't know for me, like when I think about like that people argue that I don't think it's a bad thing.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

Yeah it's an interesting thing. It's um because I see the excitement of like someone finishing a fight because the knockout and yeah I I do I understand that. And then but you know being in it myself I also like I I definitely appreciate obviously a a a good point fighter because um that takes a lot of skill to be able to uh kind of dominate your opponent in a way where you're not finishing them but like you're you're on top the whole time and you're showing everyone that you're on top the whole time absolute it's complete dominance. Yeah like you're winning every round or you know you're at least winning most rounds it's it's it's a skill in itself to do that without actually you know finishing the fight.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

Yeah yeah no I agree I agree um all right this is uh the last one from uh this is one of my last questions from then we go then we go to the AI questions I don't think you've done this but I'm gonna ask anyway have you ever just thrown punches to the wind and hoped it worked out and has it uh I don't want to give away too much of my style but uh um I don't think this is giving away much just if you at one point you'd just like fucking just throw a few a few left right hooks and just see if it lands.

SPEAKER_01 45:53

Yeah weirdly enough I've never really done that ever. I it maybe part of it's smart well yeah yes and no because that can it can be effective in itself because it is like it can be unexpected. But it seems when I'm in there it seems like everything I'm doing for it just seems quite intentional like I am sometimes I will actually put shots out that I know isn't going to land but it's because it's going to set up something else which then sets up something else and then you know so um sometimes I can actually I I can show something that looks like it it's kind of throwing to the wind but it's not like I'm just doing something to kind of to put out there to show you know oh there's this spot here but then I actually got you know go somewhere else and things like that. So yeah I I've never actually like swung like you know when you see kind of people go like this in the middle and just kind of you know hand big hubs yeah I can't say I've ever kind of used that strategy so yeah yeah definitely more of a I I'd say a technical fight yeah yeah yeah no that's good I was just curious if you get a fun point in the fight you're like you feel like you're losing like I don't know if there's anything wrong with that because you know if that because that actually can prove a fake it could work. It does work.

SPEAKER_00 47:00

It could work yeah all right now we'll get to the AI questions. So I did have to kind of edit some of these because they were just too weird. So sometimes a bit like the it doesn't actually make sense just out of curiosity like what kind of prompts like are you you kind of leading to Oh so what I did was I was like check out check check out um Zion's profile have a look at what I've already written like questions and stuff and then uh I want you to come up with some like fun edgy-ish type uh questions uh oriented around would you rather so these are would you rather questions so let's see okay this I like this one would you rather have to scream every time you throw a punch or would you or have your corner communicate through interpretive dance okay well I ask the big question yeah um but I think both of those don't seem great um because if you're def the corner communicates to me in a very in a more of a verbal way because you know I'm not going on it'd be very difficult to then turn them and they dance me like oh that's what you mean by the time I look back I'm getting like I'm getting owned.

SPEAKER_01 48:09

So that would not be helpful. I'll do the scream as I punch. Maybe I can just do little screams so like I can get around it somehow and well some people like you know if if you if you've seen like someone like Jonathan Haggerty fight have you uh from one championship he's a he's a oh yes my my tie fighter right yeah is one of the best ones so he uh he's one of those guys that do uh uses a lot of like one's called screams but the close to screaming like um with a lot of the strikes like you know that kind of and there's a lot of fighters that actually do that and you know because you actually you you're using that um that focus that energy that that um I think it helps with breathing as well it does it's it's a breathing thing yeah yeah so maybe it's a very thing to do really especially if it's helping with breathing.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

Okay. Alright here we go one would you rather fight on a tram uh on a trampoline where both fighters uh can't stop bouncing or fight underwater but both the fighters but both of you have unlimited oxygen and flippers.

SPEAKER_01 49:05

Whoa that'd be cool. I don't know about the flipp like the flippers thing it's gonna be a bit tricky.

SPEAKER_00 49:10

It'll be tricky anyway but now you got flippers on.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

But then you could you know I don't know if you can take the flippers off and smack them in the face probably if you're weighted so you kinda on the ground underwater that would make that would quite make it quite different compared to if you're just kind of floating in like the mid column of the water um or a trampoline. I think the trampoline one would be really fun double pounce like smash just go for an uppercut Superman uppercut. So is it literally just a trampoline instead of a canvas?

SPEAKER_00 49:42

Is that yeah you just just sort of like a big trampoline.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

That'd be pretty fun I think I'd like to do both but uh yeah go for the trampoline one that you could do some really cool combos and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

Yeah yeah move like a like a street fighter or like technical fight. That's pretty that'd be cool. Alright sweet okay um would you rather uh your pre-fight ritual is feeding ducks at the park um and you cannot skip this by the way so every time before you fight you have to feed the ducks or um you can only train between 3 and 4 a.m and you gotta be in bed by 5 a.m. Yeah so you gotta you can only train the middle of the night. Definitely the ducks.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

Feed the ducks that's gonna that that's gonna be right I well the way my sleep schedule works now is that that would be horrible so like well I know it can change but yeah well sleep just on the sleep thing like I find it yeah so important. It's like of course sleep recovery is but I think it's even now like nowadays it's it's coming out like even more and more studies are showing just how important it is. So 100% yeah sleep's super important to me so I have to go with the feeding the ducks but I mean what if you're in a place that doesn't even have ducks so like you know well you have to have to find them.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

Maybe you have to bring a duck maybe you have to get a pet duck and then bring it with you and then feed it every time. I mean maybe you can bypass that would be really expensive to fly a duck you know to places you need to fight I mean you've got to do it all that or train between three and four a m yeah having a pet duck that's cute. Hey that's like a good little um you know like way to promote yourself as well.

SPEAKER_01 51:12

Yeah that's like a gimmick definitely a gimmick yeah yeah uh could be a cool duck.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

Yeah there you go all right have a duck okay um would you rather get KO'd so hard you briefly become a cloud or KO someone so hard they turn into fine mist I feel like I'm the answer to this.

SPEAKER_01 51:31

I mean what does it do to you as you do onto others or something like this like I mean I don't like hurting people but um I think I might well my brain's quite important to me so I don't really want to get knocked out in general so I guess I have to do it to others but it hasn't and they just turn into it temporarily or are they they're just gone now?

SPEAKER_00 51:54

I didn't elaborate.

SPEAKER_01 51:55

Okay I'm gonna assume that they just like they come back together so that I won't I won't actually get it.

SPEAKER_00 52:00

It's not just a straight it's just straight murder. Yeah I hope not so because it does say you become temporarily cloud yeah yeah so so hard you but you briefly become a cloud yeah so I'm assuming they become fine mist of it so they completely just integrate into mist and then they like yeah reconstruct maybe in like a few hours or something.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

Yeah it's gruesome there's no permanent damage either way I'm hoping in this I mean that's probably not even realistic because there is permanent damage when you knock you know each other out. But um yeah I'm gonna do it the other person for now that's fair.

SPEAKER_00 52:37

Being selfish. Okay alright we've got a couple more this one's random is uh would you rather your fight gets interrupted by a rogue sheep that wanders into the ring and refuses to leave or the referee is a seagull who keeps stealing the mouthpieces.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

Oh my god so if there's a seagull that keeps trying to get your mouthpieces does the seagull have like what the referee wears and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 53:02

Yeah yeah that's guy's got the outfit on that's pretty cool yeah or then or you just got a sheep that won't leave the ring. So so you can keep fighting.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

That's does it know we're in New Zealand? I wonder if it's I think it does because it knows that's a kiwi thing yeah it does yeah but I I found that real but you can keep fighting but there's just a sheep in the ring with you as well so you gotta be so hectic and I don't think a sheep would be having very much fun that would be pretty confused like running.

SPEAKER_00 53:26

Because full on the sheep as well get kicked into the sheep. Oh yeah or that or a seagull keep trying to take trying to trying to take away your and what if it gets your eyes like horrible but imagine you've got the seagull just like coming in like trying to like keep stealing your it's so weird because your mouth is closed for the moment you swat the seagull away I mean you can I mean you can swat it but it's gonna come back so and it's gonna and distracts you and maybe the sheep the sheep I just I fe it'll be less interruptive in a way because like having a like an annoying like thing coming into your vision all the time would be really annoying. Whereas the sheep probably is going to try and stay away from you guys the whole time I reckon like it's going to try it let's yeah I think sheeps are much more like they're they're a lot more feared fear fearful of people some seagulls are pretty like fearless aren't they? Yeah super aggressive dive bombing you like trying to get your get your chips. Yeah all right that's a good one. Um okay let's okay this one okay would you rather retire undefeated but spend your retirement haunted by the ghosts of everyone you KO'd or lose your final fight but the person who beats you immediately it immediately retires out of respect.

SPEAKER_01 54:37

Well how do you lose that fight?

SPEAKER_00 54:40

Does it say So it says lose your final fight. You just lose your final in any in any kind of way. In any way yeah but whoever beats you they retire out of respect and then and they and they don't fight again.

SPEAKER_01 54:50

This one's kind of interesting because it talks about I guess a little bit like legacy is like that's quite an important thing that's legacy.

SPEAKER_00 54:56

But then also now you're haunted by the people who you've knocked out.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

I guess it depends how bad the hauntings are like if if it's just like you were kind of like haunted in this in the sense that like you have like a like your own emotions or like thoughts will come up about like this person and that person that can't be it won't be as bad if there was like a physical ghost of someone that you knocked out I don't know why I'm like thinking about it so deeply it's such a stupid question. So random I mean legacy is n I try to say it's not that important but it is in a way as well. It it's a complicated issue in itself it's very philosophical I guess it's just person to person. Um let's just go with the fact that let's be undefeated that'd be fun and um you get haunted by your Yeah and it's just let's just say that the hauntings is not that great. Like it's just like minimal.

SPEAKER_00 56:01

Yeah but they're at like in your house every day.

SPEAKER_01 56:04

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:05

And you're haunted right so they're gonna be there every day. And so that means you're spending the rest of your years now.

SPEAKER_01 56:10

I've had 26 fights and I plan to have a lot more so that's a lot of people it's a lot you've knocked out a lot of people yeah yeah how many knockouts do you have I've had I have nine KO slash TKOs. So wow yeah which is pretty cool. Wow that's a lot of that's a lot of people haunting you bro that's and that's at the beginning already that's nine people but not you're on the legacy you've got to make was what you gotta be a lot of and I because in funnily enough I don't want to like yeah go too too b deep into it but I think that um the whole like haunting thing does kind of happen in a way I mean not to a sa same degree because like you do kind of think about you know the the your your old fights and like oh you should have done this, could have done this and oh blah blah you know from like a mental point of view. You do kind of haunt yourself in a way um but maybe an athletes probably think that maybe there's lots of athletes that are like that in lots of sports.

SPEAKER_00 57:05

But yeah go with that one. So go with the first one still get the good legacy. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 57:11

Because I think yeah as a young fighter coming up like that's kind of the dream is that you you know you do really not they am undefeated already like I I have had some losses but um yeah let's say this is my professional MMA record or something.

SPEAKER_00 57:24

We're defeating professional MMA that's it manifest yeah that's it okay this last one cracks me up okay would you rather have to fight your opponent and their mum at the same time or fight uh one guy but he's he's allowed to use a a push scooter so he can bring a scooter along. Oh and you can use it he can like ride around in like the scooter and I was thinking like immediately you can use it as a weapon as a weapon I'm not sure if he can use it as a weapon but then definitely the scooter. Yeah I'd I'd say he's he he's just allowed to have it but I don't think he's allowed to like throw it at you or anything.

SPEAKER_01 57:56

Oh okay.

SPEAKER_00 57:57

But even if he does throw it it's kind of redundant at that point. Yeah. Because then he can't really throw it out of the ring.

SPEAKER_01 58:01

Yeah um and I I thought some opponents have some like some protective vicious mums I reckon as well so like they would be pretty that would be pretty hard uh 1v2 I reckon in some cases.

SPEAKER_00 58:12

Do you actually I reckon like yeah like some of the things I mean it is emotional watching your son or daughter get knocked out in front of you.

SPEAKER_01 58:18

That's uh Yeah and not even just not even the ones I've knocked out of it like just just fought against and then I'll like meet their family or what sometimes um yeah and I I have met people's mums like um just like briefly but um I mean they'll everyone I it seems like so far I've been kind of blessed that everyone has been pretty nice and like that's got that's also I guess a misconception that a lot of people might have is that um uh you kind of you almost you can like almost demonize your opponent and everyone that they're around like their crew but um we're all kind of we're actually all pretty everyone I've met so far uh it's pretty nice in in martial arts weirdly enough like it's such a it's such a brutal non-forgiving sport. Yeah and everyone is pretty nice so yeah but yes I've seen I I reckon I've seen like it's protective parents around and stuff just like my own are probably and yeah it's no it's been cool meeting meeting different people.

SPEAKER_00 59:13

So yeah you you you would but yeah the scooter guy is definitely especially if you can't use it around the ring and trying to trying to hurt you. Do some kicks off the scooter I don't think it'd be that effective so I'd no it's not a very big ring so I don't think it would work that well. Yeah um but yeah you wouldn't fight them and yeah their mum damn yeah their mum might know what they're doing too imagine that yeah they could be X fighter or even a current fighter yeah that'd be pretty hecting oh that's uh th those are my uh those are all my silly AI ones those are my A ones there's some good ones though I reckon though I think my favourite one might be the uh might be the sheep one that one's pretty good. This is like yeah it's just cool cool to imagine all it's like just something just interrupts the fight it just like adding obstacles I remember like have you seen I've seen like random MMA competitions online I think the the two that I that I saw were just really funny was and the Russian ones I'm pretty sure there's like there's Kai Jujitsu that's pretty funny. I've seen that one yeah and then there's uh the blind MMA I haven't seen that one and they're just in like an octopus yeah blindfolded and they're just like having to find each other and find out I think I might have seen a clip here and then like something about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:12

Another one I've seen is um like literal phone phone booth boxing like they're just like they're just trapped in a phone booth like swinging that one that one's pretty crazy like okay I can check that up yeah because there's literally no like such thing as range then it's just pure like yeah like if you're a really good dirty boxer that you'd be like a champion at that.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:31

Yeah I saw um what's it the uh the the he's quite a well known commentator no sorry uh journalist in the UFC hangs out like Dan Hooker a lot I forgot his name but he did like the boxing but you hold a beer and it's like so you have like a bowl of beer in your hand and then you're like doing boxing boxing it's like one handed boxing but you're drinking as well yeah I think so like you get punched in the face as you drink like I can I I haven't thought about it that I don't I didn't watch the fight but I think he did it also I I have to check it out but that must look crazy as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:59

Yeah so and that actually reminds you almost as well like um you know the whole slap fighting stuff oh yeah the power slab yeah I'm not a fan of that's just trying how do you get famous as fast as you can and just you have but famous for what?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:14

Yeah but no but like it's like quick fame.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:16

It's quick fame you can this day and age I guess yeah I guess that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:20

Yeah I'm not saying I like it but I that's how it works.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:22

Because then you get it's like it's like you know like obviously Danhook has got one minute scraps you know I personally wouldn't do that but I understand why people might yeah I I actually I know a few people have been on that um and well Alejandra was on that he did the original one as well over in Thailand. Yeah and um I another a mate of mine that I train with uh Corin his name is um he's been on that a couple times I think as well. Oh wow yeah um so I know people who've done it and I know people who want to do it there's people in my gym like oh I'd be so good at that but it's great. Yeah okay um it but it's definitely that particular rule set is I I reckon is is not my thing. And the same with the power slide thing like I don't know it just it kind of takes away a lot of the I guess the intelligence aspect for me in a way that's the point, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:06

It's meant to be like an a quick entertaining yeah thing to watch I see I can see how it could be entertaining.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:12

Um but not you're not a fan myself. Well the one bit of scraps I there is still definitely like strategy and um well a bit of strategy involved in that I reckon and the only thing about power slap I I just I what I really hate about it is you just have to stand there and take it.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:27

Like you can't do anything to defend yourself you can't dodge you just stand there and just get abused it's just I it's just it's a concussion machine so it's like oh I mean it you know UFC and and MMA you know these days are already a concussion machine in some ways so like making it worse is not the answer in my opinion but no anyway.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:47

No like I I I can see the appeal for some and I think like if you're in a position where you're like ah fuck it like I just earn some money and I mean people for for entertainment right like some people will just jump into it. But yeah not I mean yeah I wouldn't I would I would never do it. I mean already like yeah training and if you're doing kickboxing and stuff is already risk. There's already risk involved in at least you can defend yourself. Yeah you can block and you can get out the way and things like that. Yeah because I are you in jiu jitsu are you a blue belt?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:16

Uh I'm technically a white belt. Oh yeah I've been training for years on and off I mean in the last two years I've been training full time I'd like to say at least um you know like where I'm actually doing it quite a bit in the week. I mean I've actually even got my first bit of cauliflower ear. I know I can see that yeah bit of asymmetry going on but um yeah so yeah I've definitely been doing a lot more as as I was getting um I was doing a lot of grappling uh getting ready for this fight um just because you know I I'd like to view myself as quite a um c fairly competent striker at this point. So you know um I want to get my grappling as as like you know if anything better even than my striking would be awesome uh you know one day. Um so yeah um yeah yeah um it's got the cauliflower um but um yeah hopefully I'll do it I I am yeah technically I'm a white belt but um I I reckon I'll get graded to be a blue belt fairly soon I'd like to think um because I'd imagine you would 'cause you won the competition as well in Wellington, right? Yeah well I I came second second place out of get quite a quite a big big group of people um in that in that um division. Um so that's cool. And it shows I'm I guess I'm doing some good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:36

Yeah man got got some what's your favourite uh submission?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:40

Oh it's I mean I'm a big fan of chokes like especially with MMA I think that's just like the Red Naked? Definitely the Rare Naked that's that's gotta be the top like it is a banger. It is the elite like I think um uh there was a study well not study it's it's pretty easy data but um they looked at like what the most most used uh I guess most successful submissions are in like MMA and and I think the Renaked came out on top by quite a far margin. I bet oh I I could be wrong but I think I think it it was the Renaked choke that was you know the most successful and and there's a reason for that is it's just so effective um chokes in general are um yeah yeah because I feel like um in general getting unless you're like really ground fighting like getting like a Kimura it can be quite hard.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:25

If one person's got an arm free and it's punch in the face it's gonna be pretty hard to like to you have to be very quick with it I think if you're gonna just try and just from an observer looking at it I feel like it'd be quite hard to if someone's like punching and that and maybe like you've got one arm but you're trying to get out of it and then because MMA rules I guess you've got to be like your jujitsu's gotta be you'll be very confident or the other person's just not very good at all on the ground.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:46

It'd be a bit of both. Um so wh when it comes to those kind of more I guess a little bit more complicated like uh submissions it seems as though when the fight goes on f longer that there's more obviously the sweat ins It becomes slippery. So that that so the scrambles are a lot more like and also harder to hold on to people's arms. But in saying that especially if you have a cardio advantage of the other person, that's when those kind of submissions start to present themselves more. And then it slows it down too, and I feel like that's a an easier way to start getting getting some submissions going. But I will find out all these things soon enough.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:23

Hey man, it's exciting.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:24

Exciting. Alright, dude. Um I think that's pretty much all I got for you. Um do you have anything you'd like to say? Any shout-outs or anything you'd like to say? Final words, final thoughts before we wrap up.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:36

No, I think we I mean it was it was a good fun conversation, I reckon. Like we you talked about some good stuff in there, especially with the uh with the um with the AI questions. It's funny. But um no, I I guess I'll give I give a shout-out to the three gyms I train out of currently in in Wellington. I've got um so I've got green gloves for boxing. I'd like to do more um than I am currently because I just spread out my timetables so much. But you know, I yes I train at Green Gloves Boxing, they're they're awesome group of people. Um yeah, really appreciate what they do. Uh I train out of Warrior Training Academy, is my that's my main gym that I'm like like I you know like if I was to say like what got me to King of the Ring, for example, like it's definitely Warrior Training Academy. That's the that's like my main kind of gym where I've gotten all my Muay Thai and kickboxing from in a way. There's been other gyms in the past, but like that's where I really develop my style. Um and then also Workshop Jiu Jitsu. Um just yeah, want to give a shout out to those three gyms because yeah, awesome group of people, you know, you guys know who you are, and and um it's been great training for you guys, but yeah. Um one more thing I'll just end on is um so I I plan to go to Thailand to to train and fight for for a few months um at least.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:50

Awesome win. Um in April. Exciting, so just around the corner, yeah. Um exciting.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:55

So yeah, as much as I love training at those three places, I will be you know training at you know, more different gyms, different bodies, different perspectives, different people. And you're gonna get a few fights under your belt when you're gonna get it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:05

Definitely, yeah, yeah. You know, and there's lots of little guys over there, so that helps.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:10

It's gonna be crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:10

I've heard lots of stories about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:12

If someone falls out, then there'll be someone around there, you know, that like it's gonna be good. Awesome, man. Hopefully stay super active. Yeah, that that's um I I can a big part of my success has just been super being really active, just lining them up, lining them up constantly. Yeah, just want to give a shout to those three gems though, and yeah, it's been awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:29

Exciting. Uh thanks, Ian, for coming on, bro. And um yeah, it looks like you got a lot of exciting things along the way and um wish you the best of your fight career and everything else you're doing. Thanks. Yeah. Cheers. So yeah, everyone for listening. Call it there. Bye.